PEP Episode 049 — Dual Pricing Revolution: How Tech is Changing the Game | Conversation With Paul Hadfield

Introduction

Paul Hadfield shares his journey from college dropout to successful payment processor, emphasizing the importance of building sticky merchant relationships through technology and customer service rather than treating them as short-term revenue sources.  Enjoy this conversation with James Huber, managing partner of Global Legal Law Firm.

• Started in payments in 2001 after answering a newspaper ad while contemplating dropping out of college
• Built and sold his first ISO in 2013, then created another payment processing company focused on long-term business building
• Transitioned from a pure sales approach to technology-focused solutions as the industry evolved
• Created a cash discount application for Clover that now has approximately 7,000 active users
• Observed how COVID changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees
• Focused business strategy on restaurant industry where point-of-sale systems can function as a “central nervous system”
• Recently sold his second payments company while maintaining an entrepreneurial role
• Believes in fostering honest feedback from employees to drive continuous improvement
• Values building businesses with long-term vision rather than short-term profit goals

Contact Paul at paulhadfield.co or email him at paul@trnxn.com.

Imagine starting your career in the basement of a dental office, slinging merchant accounts on 100% commission, and building that hustle into multiple successful payment processing companies. That’s exactly what Paul Hadfield did after answering a newspaper ad that promised ongoing monthly residuals for each sale—a concept so appealing it prompted him to drop out of college.

What separates Paul’s approach from many in the payments industry is his fundamental philosophy: “Never lose a customer.” While some processors view merchants as revenue sources to exploit with hidden fees and restrictive contracts, Paul built his businesses treating merchants as long-term partners. This perspective became increasingly critical as the industry evolved from simple terminal-based systems to sophisticated technology platforms.

The conversation explores how the payments landscape has transformed dramatically over the past two decades. Around 2016-2017, Paul noticed a pivotal shift where technology began outweighing relationships and pricing as the deciding factor for merchants. This realization led him to develop specialized solutions like a cash discount application for Clover and focus intensely on the restaurant industry, where point-of-sale systems can function as a business’s “central nervous system” when properly implemented.

Perhaps most fascinating is Paul’s observation about how the pandemic fundamentally changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees. Pre-COVID, implementing surcharges or cash discounts often met resistance; post-pandemic, these practices gained widespread acceptance as consumers became more understanding of businesses’ need to offset costs.

After building and selling multiple payment companies, Paul shares valuable insights about entrepreneurship, leadership challenges, and the delicate balance of providing honest feedback in organizations. Whether you’re in the payments industry or running any business, his journey offers valuable lessons about building sticky customer relationships and adapting to technological change without losing your core values.

Transcript

James Huber (00:00):

I’d go into the courtroom with a judge grayer hair than me, and I’d slam down the visa rules being like they’re violating the visa rules. And Judge whips out his wad of cash and he’s just the visa. I mean, a lot of people still, they’d use credit cards kind of, but no, he’s operating on cash. And I’d have to draw this whole chart out. Here’s how the system works and all of that. And a lot of judges, they’d like it and they’d be like, oh wow, I know. But they’re like, why do I care after Covid, it was now they are leaning forward when I’m giving this presentation, the same presentation, I’ve been giving it for 15 years, and they’re leaning forward and they’re saying thank you. Like, oh my gosh, wow, I had no idea. No wonder I’m getting jacked. And everybody’s getting jacked. Like, yeah, let’s sue some people in here.

Paul Hadfield (00:55):

Well, the car associations are cracking down a little bit on it. I mean, they’re starting to pass fines off for business that aren’t doing it the right way. And technically the way you’re supposed to do it is your advertised price needs to be your card price, and then you’re discounting off of that. But so many businesses do it the other way where they’re

James Huber (01:13):

Doing it wrong,

Paul Hadfield (01:14):

Increasing, and then it’s a surcharge and then it becomes a whole problem.

James Huber (01:17):

It’s a whole problem. And they’ll fine you a thousand dollars for the first one and they’ll be like, fix it. But in that grace period will come secret. Shop you three more times.

Speaker 3 (01:27):

That’s right.

James Huber (01:28):

And we have one client that we sued Visa over a $70,000 fine for one merchant. And you can’t pass that on to the merchant. They’re out of

Speaker 3 (01:36):

Business.

Jeremy Stock (01:38):

Welcome to the Payments Experts podcast, a podcast of global legal law firm. We hope you enjoy this episode. Very excited. Today in studio driving down from Costa Mesa, California, we have Paul Hadfield. Paul, welcome to the Payments Experts podcast studio. With us is James Huber, managing partner of the law firm, Gentlemen, we’re looking forward to a great conversation today.

James Huber (02:08):

Alright, Paul, thanks for driving down. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so why don’t you tell us how’d you end up in this wonderful world of payments?

Paul Hadfield (02:16):

Actually, this is a really funny story. So I was in college and freshman year immediately felt like I didn’t fit in. And so I started figuring, wow, right, well, if I’m going to drop out of college, I better have something to tell my parents.

Paul Hadfield (02:33):

So I answered an ad in a local paper. We’re talking 2001. That’s where you found jobs in the paper, right outside of a grocery store. They had stacks of these career builder or whatever it is. And I’m just going through the sales section. I can sell stuff. And there was an ad that said, make tons of money selling a product to businesses. And so I just called and they’re like, yeah, come on down. And I go into this basement, the basement of a dental office, and it was this small ISO of First American payment systems

Paul Hadfield (03:08):

Just kind of figuring stuff out, getting their feet wet. And I sit down at this guy’s desk and he’s like, yeah, you sell this, these products, this payments products, and you get a little bit of money every single month. Sweet. And I was like, is that even legal? They’re like, yeah. I’m like, I just make the sale and I get money every single month. And they’re like, yeah. And they’re like, but it’s a hundred percent commission. And I’m like, I don’t care. Let’s do it. Right. So I called my parents, I’m like, I’m dropping out of school and blah, blah. So anyway, and they’re like,

James Huber (03:35):

Great.

Paul Hadfield (03:37):

They were not happy.

Jeremy Stock (03:38):

No, they were not happy.

Paul Hadfield (03:39):

Yeah, not happy. They might be smiling Now,

Jeremy Stock (03:42):

What were you studying at the time, Paul? What was your major?

Paul Hadfield (03:46):

I actually was, I wanted to be in physical therapy because I played sports in high school, had a bunch of knee injuries, loved my physical therapist, and I grew up with dreams of being a baseball player. And then in high school I’m like, well, okay, I’m not going to play pro thought that I would. And then you start playing against other kids that are really good and you’re like, you’re no longer that good. You’re definitely not going pro. But I was like, if I can’t play sports, I would be fun to work with athletes. And so then I get to school and starting school never made sense to me. I just want to be a physical therapist, but why do I have to take all this chemistry?

James Huber (04:24):

Yeah, why do I have to know math?

Paul Hadfield (04:26):

Exactly. I have to spend four years learning

James Huber (04:29):

Still

Paul Hadfield (04:29):

Chemistry and math and go deep into debt. Can you just teach me about how

James Huber (04:35):

To fix that knee?

Paul Hadfield (04:36):

Yeah,

James Huber (04:37):

Yeah, exactly.

Paul Hadfield (04:38):

That’s a different podcast though.

James Huber (04:39):

Yeah,

Paul Hadfield (04:41):

But that was my introduction into payments is working for a real small iso. And then I eventually got to the point where I was like, I can do this on my own. I don’t need these guys. I had nothing to risk in my early twenties. My bills were nothing. I’m roommate, I got no car payment. I’m like, I can live off peanut butter jelly sandwiches and just I go out and sling merchant accounts.

James Huber (05:08):

Then the rest is history.

Paul Hadfield (05:10):

Well, the rest is kind of history. I built up an ISO that I sold in 2013, then started another ISO that I actually just sold this last at the end of last year.

James Huber (05:22):

So your 10 year mark is builded up and sell it. Is that about right?

Paul Hadfield (05:28):

I don’t know, man. I never, it’s funny because the first ISO that I sold, I was like, well, wasn’t selling it for me wasn’t as fun as building it. And so my next iso I’m like, you know what? I’m going to build this lifestyle business and eventually pass it to my kids. Even the legal business name is Hadfield Group LLC, and I’m like, I’m going to give this to my kids to do. But things

James Huber (05:59):

When you sold the first time, were you planning on going back? I hear a lot of times people are like, I sold, I was going to get out, and then I tried to do some other stuff and I was just not that good

Paul Hadfield (06:09):

At it. A hundred percent. That’s exactly what I did.

Paul Hadfield (06:11):

So I actually, I always loved real estate. I wanted to get into commercial real estate and I was in Chicago where I lived for years over a week, and there’s some guys I know that run this big real estate fund and I set up a meeting with them to meet with them. Hey, I want to get into commercial real estate. I have these ideas and blah, blah, blah. And this guy, one of the founders of this company, he’s sitting across the table from me and he’s like, why would you do that? I’m like, because I’m interested in commercial real estate. He’s like, I was a stockbroker. That’s where I made my money. And then I went into commercial real estate. He’s like, do you know how complicated my life became for so many years? He’s like, do you want to do that to yourself? Right? I was like, I don’t know. I think

James Huber (06:52):

So. I thought I did.

Paul Hadfield (06:53):

And he goes, let me tell you, he knows my payments background. He was like, let me tell you how valuable your knowledge in the payment space is. He goes, if you came in here today and said, I’m starting a new company and I’m trying to raise money, he’s like, I’m going to write you a check right now. He’s like, if you say I’m going to go buy a commercial property, it’s my first one. He’s like, I’m not giving you anything. I remember walking out of there. I called my wife, I’m like, I think I’m staying a payments business. I mean, he made a great point. I mean that specialized knowledge. So one of the principles from Napoleon Hills Think and Grow Rich, right? It’s like specialized knowledge is a key to building wealth, and I’ve seen that as well in the payments business. I always think of a pyramid. It’s like the longer that you’re doing something, the more you’re set alone at the top. You’ve got so much specialized knowledge, it would be a shame to just throw it away,

James Huber (07:47):

Right? Yeah. I mean, we run into the same thing. We’ll have people call us up and be like, Hey, my mom got hit and she lost her leg and this total pretend scenario, but we could make a lot of money doing that. And we’re going like, no. Throwing that into what we do, it messes our systems up. So we’ll be interviewing people and they’ll be like, Hey, I’ve got this big book of business. Most firms are like, yeah, great. We’ll take your book of business. We’re like, you got to shed all of it because we do this only. So I totally agree. When you did it the first time and you started out it’s you, your backpack, what slang in it wasn’t knuckle busters, but you’re slang in VX twenties. Were you doing the leasing model back then where you’d lease ’em

Paul Hadfield (08:35):

A little bit? A little bit,

James Huber (08:37):

Yeah. That’s how I got started. I was doing collections on people that leased 10 VX twenties for a single point of sale and we’re suing ’em for $140,000.

James Huber (08:49):

It was just good times. It’s been business. We even had a collection department and these guys, they worked this little scheme where they would, one guy would call up and he’d be yelling at him on the phone, be like, get on the phone. He’d be swearing, this guy was good at it. He’d be like, red-faced, blurting out. And then the other guy would come up and be like, oh my gosh, I’m sorry. I got to go and hung up. And then he’d call him back and he’d be like, I’m so sorry. We just fired Dylan. We’re so sorry. And that would work. They’d be like, oh, we got the, I’ve heard

Speaker 3 (09:20):

Finally,

James Huber (09:21):

Because these people, you’re really good at sales. I’m sure you weren’t doing that model, but these guys, they’re shuffling the paper round and they get these merchants into it, and they’re not that good at business, small business. Maybe they’re great at their little business, but throw anything else in there. And that’s where we’re always going. No call an attorney when you’re negotiating your MPA. That’s right, because nobody does. And then you get stuck in arbitration. But anyways, that’s how I got started, and luckily that’s gone even though I really did enjoy that from a dark middle school bully perspective.

Paul Hadfield (09:59):

Yeah, I mean there’s still equipment leasing out there. It’s just not nearly as common. But I mean, as you probably know, mean there’s some large ISOs that still do tons of leasing in.

James Huber (10:08):

They’ll still lease VX twenties. I have guys, I was on a call with this guy, he’s got a sideways hat on and he’s going, I don’t even care about residuals. We’re just still doing the leasing model. And I’m like, who does your collections? Just kidding. Okay, so you started it the first time backpack built it up. What’s your playbook? What’s your model of success? And if you don’t want to give it away, fine, but obviously not everyone can do it. I tried to start an ISO once, and it was because I had these clients that show up in a Ferrari and Lamborghini. I was like, I’ll just do that. No, it didn’t work.

Paul Hadfield (10:48):

Well, I think for me it’s changed over the years. Early on in the industry, my key was a great sales team and great support just tried and true. And that was a lot easier to do 15 years ago because I think technology was pretty much similar regardless of who you were, right? It’s like you said, the VX five twenties, everybody’s using a terminal and cloud-based technology didn’t really exist. E-commerce was still kind of in its real early stages. So it was like the real only differentiators were price service, and then technology maybe was starting to creep in with some basic, basic things. But so if you just had a great sales team and you learned how to sell and take care of your customers, you could really build a viable business. You can still do that today. It’s just gotten a lot harder.

James Huber (11:46):

It’s harder. I mean, back then you’re just plucking people that were selling knives

Paul Hadfield (11:50):

Before.

James Huber (11:51):

Car dealership guys were great laughing. I think he used to sell knives. Cutco.

Jeremy Stock (11:56):

I used to sell stakes.

James Huber (11:59):

Okay, well that’s similar. That’s legit door to door. If you had a cooler and you’d be like, here, you want some, it was the truck.

Paul Hadfield (12:05):

Have you seen those guys that they sell speakers out of their car, they see people on the sidewalk and Hey, we have this overflow of speakers. Man, you want ’em at 80% off? Did you buy some? No, look at their garbage. Oh, man. Garbage. Yeah, no name like speakers. They have Boise. They have these big stories about how they have this whole truck full of speakers

Jeremy Stock (12:27):

Boise instead of Boose.

James Huber (12:30):

Yeah. So no, I mean we saw that model. We were in-house for our first client as they built it from, I think when we were hired, they had 12 or 13 people. They’d just grown out of their office. They’re like, you take our office. And then they grew to 400 nationwide, and they loved getting sales guys from car dealerships, and that’s all they had to do is go, here’s a number that’s lower than what you got. And that was it. So what’s the difference, I guess? So you did that model. What’s the difference now? Can you still get somebody selling stakes and teach ’em how to sell payments?

Paul Hadfield (13:11):

Yes, I think so. I don’t do that. I think you don’t

James Huber (13:17):

Recruit from the stake department.

Paul Hadfield (13:20):

Yeah, the local stake door to door stake company.

James Huber (13:24):

Yeah.

Paul Hadfield (13:24):

I mean, look, I think a great sales person and a great sales team is something that’s always going to be of value for sure. So over the years, my biggest goal in payments was to and still is, to never lose a customer. That’s how I always look at it. So how sticky can I make this merchant relationship? And I’ve always tried to treat a merchant relationship more of a business partner as opposed to a piggy bank. That’s a lot of people in the industry. It’s like, well, I have this merchant on board, let me lock ’em into a contract and then just keep banging them with fees. And if they try to leave,

James Huber (14:04):

Get ’em into a merchant cash advance. I remember going to a big merchant, Jeremy, you went with me. We went to a merchant cash advance conference and we heard the guy and he’s like, this is just another hook. Get him into an MCA

Speaker 5 (14:16):

And

James Huber (14:16):

Then we won’t tell you because we’re going to get him into six more and stack ’em all up. And then they’re out of business, which was not the goal. That was the last conference we went to those.

Paul Hadfield (14:29):

So for me, it’s always been, those are consistent. I think a great sales team, great sport have always been consistent. But then over the years, especially as time has gone, trying to find the right combination of technology to help that business operate more efficiently. And that’s the biggest thing today is that there’s so much specialized technology for businesses that if you’re just giving them a thing, a tool or a piece of technology, and it’s not changing the trajectory of their business, it’s not streamlining things, it’s not making their business operate more efficiently, then you could still win that merchant. But it’s just a matter of time before they find the thing that’s best for them. So to your point, you can find the stake salesman and he can make some sales, but I think any ISO or any payments business needs to latch onto technology and look at where is this business going to be in the best place for the next five years? What product, what service can I provide them that truly keeps them sticky? Because I’ve lost plenty of merchants over the years where I’ve had great relationships with them, been providing great service, great support, great pricing, but that they found technology that’s just going to be better

James Huber (15:53):

For actually

Paul Hadfield (15:53):

Worked their business. And I started to see that shift probably around 20 16, 20 17, where it was like, look, I think we’re shifting more towards the technology era than, hey, I’m just a great local guy with good rates. When did Clover come out?

James Huber (16:09):

Right? Then

Paul Hadfield (16:11):

I think Clover came out a little earlier, little earlier. I want to say it was like 2012 or 20. But

James Huber (16:15):

The clover, as far as machines go, I mean it’s the VX 20 of POS machines. So if you’re selling stakes, you can go sell a clover to somebody who is just running a terminal no problem because going, oh, look at that with spins and all of this, but it doesn’t really do what it said we all hoped it was going to do. I mean, look, you still have to use that thing because people

Speaker 3 (16:38):

That’s right,

James Huber (16:39):

Do it. But yeah, I agree that it’s not the next technology. So did you develop technology?

Paul Hadfield (16:47):

Well, so we actually built a cash discount application on clover’s infrastructure, and we almost did that. I’ve never been a big cash discount proponent

Paul Hadfield (16:59):

Putting myself in a merchant’s shoes. I’m like, why wouldn’t I just raise my price or whatever. But I think there’s a lot of businesses that are real price conscious. If you’re a burger restaurant, you don’t want to have a burger that’s a dollar more than the one down the street. People care about that stuff. So implementing cash discounting, that was something that we had salespeople and ISOs and agents and even merchants coming to us saying, Hey, somebody’s telling us we can save a ton of money if we do this cash discount thing. So I think the options that existed in the marketplace, I wasn’t thrilled with them. So it’s funny, there’s a well-known clover developer down in San Diego. I’ve seen some other applications they built that have been just phenomenal. And I just cold called them one day and I’m like, Hey, would you build an app for us? And this is how we want to build it. They’re like, yeah, let’s do it. So that’s how that started. And I think as of today, there’s something like 7,000 active users and most came through word of mouth on that app store. So I think cash discounting is a huge thing because businesses, especially small businesses, they’re looking for any edge

Paul Hadfield (18:09):

They can get.

James Huber (18:12):

And card holders, they don’t care. I mean, you’re getting hit everywhere. I mean,

Paul Hadfield (18:18):

Well, yeah, look, I hate talking about CO because we’re so far past that. But if there’s one benefit for small businesses that came out of it that consumers are more, they’re okay with extra fees, they understand it more, right? So when they see these different fees, that’s just become more common because they know small businesses were struggling around that time, businesses were adding more fees. And now consumers I think are more okay with it.

James Huber (18:48):

Totally. I mean, we saw the same thing. I tell this story often of I’d go into the courtroom with the judge grayer hair than me, and I’d slam down the visa rules being like they’re violating the visa rules. And judge whips out his wad of cash and he’s just the visa. I mean, a lot of people still, they’d use credit cards kind of, but no, he’s operating on cash. And I’d have to draw this whole chart out. Here’s how the system works and all of that. And a lot of judges, they’d like it and they’d be like, oh wow, I know. But they’re like, why do I care after it was now they are leaning forward when I’m giving this presentation, it’s the same presentation. I’ve been giving it for 15 years, and they’re leaning forward and they’re saying thank you. Like, oh my gosh, wow, I had no idea. No wonder I’m getting jacked. And everybody’s getting jacked like, yeah, let’s sue some people in here.

Paul Hadfield (19:48):

Well, the car associations are cracking down a little bit on it. I mean, they’re starting to pass fines off for business that aren’t doing it the right way. And technically the way you’re supposed to do it is your advertised price needs to be your card price, and then you’re discounting off of that. But so many businesses do it the other way where they’re

James Huber (20:06):

Doing it wrong,

Paul Hadfield (20:06):

They’re increasing, and then it’s a surcharge, and then it becomes a whole problem.

James Huber (20:10):

It’s a whole problem. And they’ll find you a thousand dollars for the first one and they’ll be like, fix it. But in that grace period will come secret shop you three more times.

Speaker 3 (20:20):

That’s right.

James Huber (20:20):

And we have one client that we sued visa over a $70,000 fine for one merchant, and you can’t pass that on to the merchant. They’re out of business. So the ISOs are just eating it.

Paul Hadfield (20:31):

That’s right.

James Huber (20:32):

And yeah, it’s brutal.

Paul Hadfield (20:34):

And a lot of the processors and ISO pass it down to their sub ISOs and agents. Oh

James Huber (20:40):

Yeah, they find the bank. This is how they’re getting around it too, because we sued them and a judge said, you guys didn’t really get there because you’re the iso. You’re not really getting fined by Visa. Finding the bank and then the processor, and then they’re just pushing it down and we’re like, well, it’s dollar for dollar, so I have to sue Fiserv in the bank. I can’t do that. It’s a death sentence. Well, you can sue, your processor is fine, but you never sue your bank or you’re done.

Speaker 3 (21:09):

Yeah.

James Huber (21:11):

Okay. So now when you sold last time, was it I’m out clean walk or just some attrition guarantees?

Paul Hadfield (21:18):

No, so I had a business partner. I sold my half the business to my partner. Okay, great.

James Huber (21:24):

And so

Paul Hadfield (21:24):

This then started a new

James Huber (21:25):

One, then started a new one and competed with him and burnt him to the ground. Just kidding. So this time you did things differently. This time you’re going buy me, they bought you, they own you now more or less. I’m just kidding.

Jeremy Stock (21:44):

Can you talk about that, Paul? I think what you were asking about James is you talked about setting this up for your family in the sense of this kind of looking forward. Can you maybe explain what that looks like?

Paul Hadfield (21:57):

So my last IO when I started in, this was like 2014. The idea was I’m going to run this business forever, which I think by the way, is a great way to go into a business because you’re laying the groundwork for something real.

James Huber (22:14):

Yeah. And how do you build a culture around you when you’re like, yeah, I’m going to be out of here in five years. I’m just going to pump this thing up and

Paul Hadfield (22:22):

Exactly.

James Huber (22:22):

Be done.

Paul Hadfield (22:23):

Exactly. And I think it translates into how you take care of your employees and how you take care of your customers. And that long-term vision is, I’ve always skewed more towards long-term than short-term.

Paul Hadfield (22:38):

And I think that employees can feel that. Customers can feel that you’re just going to have a better culture in general. But again, with my idea of never wanting to lose a customer, I latched onto as much technology as possible and started working with, I really started focusing in the restaurant world because for me, restaurants even still have so much opportunity as far as payments and point of sale. They just have the most moving parts. So there’s the most room for air. And when you really start meeting with a restaurateur about point of sale, they’re not utilizing that thing to its most efficient manner. It’s like the point of sale for a restaurant if done properly, can become, I always refer to it as a central nervous system. It’s like the whole business can operate

James Huber (23:29):

Off all of your accounting. You’re scheduling everything can run off of this, but you’re just running credit cards through it. It’s a terminal.

Paul Hadfield (23:36):

Exactly. So our model kind of became work with less merchants, but spend more time with them. And then in restaurants you can do that because generally more volume, they’re more profitable. And so built up a really nice portfolio. And this last year we were acquired by a company called Exec out of Texas.

James Huber (24:05):

And I’ve heard only good things about this company, but do you have concerns about, because there’s two ways, there’s many ways to sell, but you can sell, hit some attrition, keep it up, get the most money, or you can sell and basically partner, but you’ve been the head honcho for the last 20 years. That’s right. How are you going to navigate that of time to show up for work?

Paul Hadfield (24:33):

Look, that’s a great question. So it’s interesting because the last couple years I kind of thought, you know what? I do want to sell the company. And I started going down this road, and then once I went down the road, I backed out because almost every company that I talked to, they not only saw value in the business, but they saw value in me attached to this business. You’re a key piece of this business, the way that you build it up, we want you to come with us. And then I’m like, nah, I’m out of here. And so I started to realize, but

James Huber (25:01):

They planted the seed,

Paul Hadfield (25:02):

Right? Yeah. I think the acquisition by exec made sense, not only because of, first of all, a company’s been around since 2008.

Paul Hadfield (25:17):

Their core product is a healthcare membership product where they have taken thousands of merchants, hundreds of thousands of customers, and basically taken that buying power to get Fortune 500 level benefits and business services for small businesses. It’s phenomenal. And they’re growing like mad. They’ve got a ton of funding, but the culture that they’ve built, they’ve been around, I think I said since oh eight. They didn’t start taking on money just until these last couple of years. And a lot of people there have been around for years and years. And so it’s not an environment where I knew I was going to feel like an employee where I’m checking or coming into a cubicle and clocking in. I very much feel like an entrepreneur within the company, which was important to me. I knew if I was going to have to be an employee, then I’m going to be just completely suffocated and freak out.

James Huber (26:20):

Or maybe you’d love it. It sounds like you’ve never really done it.

Paul Hadfield (26:23):

Well, that’s interesting too, right? I’m no longer the guy at the top so I can make decisions to a certain point, but then

James Huber (26:32):

Perfect. Now it’s his fault and he gets all the credit.

Paul Hadfield (26:39):

It’s a different spin. But you know what? It’s actually made me appreciate that other side of things so much, which I’ve been working for myself for so long. So to be able to appreciate the employee

James Huber (26:49):

Side

Paul Hadfield (26:49):

Of things, which is a totally different level of stress, by the

James Huber (26:53):

Way.

Paul Hadfield (26:55):

I actually think that in some senses it’s more stressful than being a business owner. It’s just too totally different things.

James Huber (27:02):

My problem with being the owner of a business and I’ve got a great partner and we to combat what I’m about to say, we actually share an office, even though we’ve got plenty of spaces, you don’t really get feedback at the top.

Paul Hadfield (27:15):

That’s right.

James Huber (27:16):

And it’s a total just walk around. Everyone says, you’re doing great, you’re doing great. And so we sit there and we just tear each other down

Speaker 3 (27:25):

All day

James Huber (27:27):

And pump each other up. No one also says, Hey, great job. Except for Jeremy says it all the time to me. And

Jeremy Stock (27:32):

So he knows it doesn’t mean anything.

James Huber (27:33):

Yeah, exactly. White noise.

Paul Hadfield (27:36):

That’s a good point. I think that there’s, employees are generally afraid to bring bad news to the boss and to the owners. And I’ve always told employees over the years, I’m like, look, you can’t hurt my feelings. You just can’t. I need to hear what’s bad. I will reward you for telling me what’s broken. Tell me what’s broken, what needs to be fixed, where are we screwing up? I don’t want to hear like, oh, this is the best place I’ve ever worked and we’re selling the best. Tell me what I need to know. What

James Huber (28:05):

Sucks. Right? Yeah. Because good feedback. Yeah, we’re already on that trajectory. I need bad to hammer it down. I think we don’t have that problem as much. We do a lot of m and a work, and if something’s going wrong, I’m going to know about it pretty quick. And litigation, it’s public. The judge says it and publicly beats you. So we actually see a lot of it. But I guess, yeah, probably everything that goes on in Jeremy’s office, we have no idea how much stuff goes wrong down here.

Jeremy Stock (28:33):

Well, James, to this point, one of the coolest things we did, I think it was a year ago, we did that anonymous survey. Remember for that, I forget what it was. Best places to work.

James Huber (28:42):

Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Stock (28:43):

So people were able to give feedback completely anonymously. I think that was kind of cool. We did get some constructive feedback on certain things. Oh yeah,

James Huber (28:50):

We did get some constructive feedback. Then we went and found out who gave it to us

Jeremy Stock (28:55):

And they’re no longer with us.

Paul Hadfield (28:57):

It wasn’t quite as anonymous. No, we did.

Jeremy Stock (29:00):

I just said, it’s the best place to work ever. 30 times on the survey. That’s

Paul Hadfield (29:04):

Why here. Yeah, it was like a Bart Simpson chalkboard.

Jeremy Stock (29:07):

Yeah, exactly.

James Huber (29:08):

Yeah. And we actually need to fix that because we won number 42. Best place. Got to pump that up. We need better feedback probably. Alright, well so now you’re still taking on merchants. You’re still hiring ISOs. That’s right. You have a great guy to work for. How do people get in touch with you? How

Paul Hadfield (29:28):

So? I have a personal website, Paul hadfield.co. Trust me. I’ve tried to buy paul hadfield.com. The guy’s in England. He won’t sell it. He won’t sell it. but.co paul hadfield.co or you can email me@phadfieldatec.com. Exe C-T-R-A-S com.

James Huber (29:47):

Maybe you need to go buy paul hadfield.uk. That’s not a bad idea. Barter with him.

Paul Hadfield (29:52):

That’s

James Huber (29:52):

Not a bad

Jeremy Stock (29:53):

Idea. That’s why James makes the big bucks because have ideas like that. I’m

James Huber (29:58):

Sure he already has it. Alright, well thanks for coming on. We appreciate you coming down. I appreciate, we’ll have to do it again.

Jeremy Stock (30:04):

Appreciate Yeah, appreciate great conversation. Appreciate. Thank you for listening this long to the Payments Experts podcast, a podcast of global legal law firm today. We’ve had with us Paul Hadfield. You can find him@paulhadfield.co. As well as James Huber, managing partner of the Law Firm. Thank you gentlemen, as always. Have a great one.

James Huber (30:19):

Thanks.

Jeremy Stock (30:20):

Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Payments Experts Podcast, a podcast of global legal law firm. Visit us online today at global legal law firm.com.